My First Interview

It has turned out to be more difficult than I imagined to find people who are on ODSP to interview about how they contribute to society. As I mentioned in my last posting, people who deal with Moneybags and other parts of the service system have a variety of reasons to keep their experience and strategies to themselves.

At my first attempt to set up an interview I asked a neighbour who has been very active on one of the committees here at the co-op. She seemed hesitant and as I was calling on the phone I decided to change tactics. We agreed that I would come and visit her the next day. We live only a few floors away from each other.

Shortly thereafter I received a call from one of her case workers who told me that if I had questions I should ask them of her, the service provider.

Now I may not have responded very effectively but frankly I was taken aback. I have known my neighbour now for the eight months that I have lived in this co-op and from the very beginning, she and her husband have provided me with social support and have also participated actively in committee work. So my response to the case worker was to firmly state that my interview with my neighbour had nothing to do with service provisions and that I would ask my questions directly of my neighbour. Then I abruptly hung up.

The next day I received an e-mail from my neighbour who withdrew from the co-op committee and asked me not to call or visit.

I have not yet figured out what to do to restore my relationship with my friend. I imagine that at some point we will get it together again. I have mostly been “kicking” myself because I am neither naïve nor inexperienced with the service system. I could have predicted that they are closely supervising my neighbour’s relationships in the name of protecting her from something. Rather than allowing me to explain myself, either to her directly or with a supervisor present, they likely have simply convinced her that the stress is too much for her even though neither she nor they have any idea what I would be asking of her.

My second attempt to find someone to interview found me asking a person who it turns out is not on ODSP. That is, of course, no big surprise as there are many ways poor people get “benefits” in our society. One isn’t stamped with ODSP on one’s forehead. I guessed that this person’s circumstances involved an emotional characteristic that made it difficult to hold down a job. I was wrong!

With experience no doubt I will figure out ways to more comfortably ask people if they would be willing to disclose where their benefits come from and if they would participate in this blog.

The third person that I asked is Fred, who I met at my first ODSP Support Group. Fred interpreted my request as a desire to know how he volunteers. Now volunteering IS one of the ways people contribute to society, but that’s not really what I am looking for. Fred’s take on the question was interesting to me though because it put me in the place of trying again to explain what I AM looking for. I made a draft and we got together to discuss it.

Fundamentally I am exploring how “needy” people contribute to their communities and to the larger society. In our language, and so in our organizations, we divide the helpless from the helping, the needy from the gifted. This division creates a mask, obscuring the reality that one process cannot exist without the other. In any “helping” relationship, both are giving. I am intimately interested in the economic side of this disguised relationship.

(Beyond this, even the idea that one is helping is suspect in my view, but I don’t want to get into that just now – another story perhaps.)

When I speak about economics I am referring to how people together create ways to take care of their daily needs for being sustained, educated, entertained, transported, etc. It has become abundantly clear to me that being poor is part of the rock bed of the economy of our society - an economy that cannot put many people to work as farmers or labourers. A large service and consumption oriented economy is an answer to a post-industrial lack of employment. But a service economy requires people who demand services. For example there can be no case worker without a “needy” person to sustain the process.

People who are labelled disabled contribute to our economy in a number of ways. I once counted twenty-six ways. From the child with autism in a regular classroom who causes his teacher to become a better educator, to the non-speaking person who makes everyone in their vicinity feel happier, people who are labelled disabled, and so people who are on ODSP in particular, continuously contribute invisibly.

The nature of these contributions is that they are relationship focused and so life sustaining without necessarily producing a result that can be counted in our data oriented world. Nevertheless without such contributions relationships themselves are diminished in their quality and sustainability. An unhappy customer shops elsewhere. A lazy teacher deprives hundreds of children of opportunities to love learning.

So, yes, I am interested in the fact that Fred frequently, on days when he feels well enough, volunteers. By his own account volunteering is an activity that has filled many hours of his week for many years. But I am more interested in the contribution that comes through in his voicemail message where he asks for prayers and offers blessings and otherwise puts the caller in mind of a spiritual dimension - an aspect of human experience frequently absent from our daily lives. In his own words: “I am available to provide assistance or help to another. Each day I try to make the world a little better by being considerate, understanding - a simple hello, or just a smile - a simple acknowledgement of the value of the person, the situation or organization.”

Fred and I talked quite openly for about an hour and there are many other details that he did not choose to share in the blog. He shared contributions that belong to some very ordinary jobs and some that don’t typically get paid for. He also shared stories of being blocked from receiving money by community members, family, service providers and Moneybags – all in the name of his so-called disability.

Throughout our time together I was struck by the straight forward manner in which he gave his details, by the occasional twinkle in his eyes and his gentle humour. Perhaps one of Fred’s greatest gifts to me is that he showed how a confident and intelligent man who has met many road blocks in his career and his faith can tell an honest story without leaving out difficult details - and yet do so without bitterness or recrimination.

May my stories live up to the standards that Fred has set for himself.

Judith